some of the pictures that are erik put up are really disturbing, especially the ones of the masse graves. i wonder if any of the prisoners were ever buried without record, if there were any people whose families never found out whether they had died, or whether they had started a new life somewhere else.

it's weird to think of the amount of people who died just in the concentration camps. i don't know the exact number, since the amount varies from source to source, but there was one website i found which said that around 6 million jews were killed in concentration camps, half of which were exterminated in gas chambers. that's only jews!! that doesn't even include the gypsies or homosexuals or any other groups of people that were killed without a just reason. the website that i found is really interesting to look at, even though it's a little disturbing to know all the facts and information about the camps. i think it's important to know though, and to understand what so many people went through. the link is:

http://www.mtsu.edu/~baustin/holocamp.html

there's one picture which i found there that just stunned me. it gives me the creeps to think of how many people went into these...ovens to....ughhh. that's a horrible thought.










i think about 10 million people all together were killed. that's 10 times the population of Calgary. that really gives you alot to think about; that amount of innocent lives being taken all because of one man who...you know what, i don't even want to talk about that right now. i think it's disgusting what happened in the concentration camps. sorry about ranting on about all this, but i can't believe that the allies didn't notice what was happening until almost the end of the war, and how many innocent people died becuase of one mans predjudice against everybody who didn't have blonde hair and blue eyes.

number 6

6.discuss the authors use of symbolism/metaphor in your novel

there is never a constant metaphor that's used throughout the entire book. because of th imre kertesz's way of writing it like a history book, and not really putting any sentimental parts in it, there's not much chance for the use of metaphors or symbolism. there is one part though, where georg describes his situation as an train, one which feels like it's stopped, but which is going so fast, hes can't keep up with it.

"Only in Zeitz did I come to realize that even captivity has it's mundane round; indeed, true captivity is actually nothing but a gray mundane round. It was as if a I had been in a roughly comparable situation already, that time in the train on the way to Auschwitz; there too everything had hinged on time, and then on each person's individual capabilities. Except in Zeitz, to stay with my simile, the feeling I had was that the train had come to a standstill. From another angle though--and this is also true--it rushed along at such speed that I was unable to keep up with all the changes infront of and around me, or even within myself. One thing I can say atleast: for my own part, I traveled the entire route, scrupulously exploring every chance that might present itself on the way."

I think that this comparation was really accurate, because it's true that there was definatley 2 different ways of looking at his predicament. the fact that his time in the concentration camps seems to drag on is completely true. you can read that in the book. but what you don't really see, is that the world is going to keep on going, and it won't wait for him. all he can do is try to keep up with the train. maybe that's why there's the empty train tracks on the front of the book. maybe it means that the train's left him behind. or maybe it means he can't see the end. there's lots of ways that you could look at this metaphor, lots of ways you could interpret its meaning.

did you guys find any other metaphors or symbolism in Fatelessness? i know it's a bit late to ask, but i think it would be interesting of there was any that i missed.

-megan

Question 2 and 5...and 9

2: Wow Christine, you've been busy! I like the colours by the way :) Anyway, onto the metaphor question. I did a broken mirror for my metaphor of Georg because even though you can try to pick up all the peices and put them back in the frame, the reflection is distorted, and there are chips and cracks in the mirror. haha, my artistic representation was kind of lame though... :) just wondering, what did you guys do for the artistic part?

christine, i really like your metaphor, because you're right about Georg keeping himself together and not giving up on life, and your observations about him not really realizing the...enormity (for lack of better word) of his situation.

cassandra, i really like your's because the imagery is so strong, and water is one of the worlds most powerful forces. the fact that he's starting crack is related to the book because you can compare the goerg before he was taken away, and the georg after he's lived in the concentration camp for so long.

5: The word "fatelessness" isn't even a real word, but i like it much better than the first title, "fateless". i think it might be called fatlessness becauseit seems to georg like the war will go on forever. wow, i didn't think i could put that in words. i love the picture on the cover of the book, the one of the traintracks that go on forever. it explains what i can't really put into words. in one passage of the book, georg compares his situation to that of a train, how it keeps going, and he doesn't know when or where it's going to stop.

9:-Kertesz traces path of the ordinary through the center of horror
christine, where did you find this?! I love the direct way of saying wht i've been trying to convey this whole time! i think that the reason it's a "path of the ordinary" was because Georg was just an ordinary teenager, swept up into something beyond his control, and wherever you go, i believe you leave a path behind, whether good or bad. georg left his path, the one of an innocent boy, a victim of one cruel, disturbed man's doing. AKA hitler.


this is just kind of my personal thouhgts, not an answer to one of the questions. hitler, before he was elected, promised germans food, work, and hope, things that had been lacking for so long. he promised to pull germany out of the hole it was in, and into a new world, one where germany could become a superpower, one where germans could have work , food on their tables, and freedom. once elected, hitler maintained his promises, but used horrible means to get there. i have two questions, and you guys don't have to answer them , just if you're as interested in this as i am:

for hitler, did the ends justify his means?

and also, do you think that the majority of germans regretted electing hitler, or do you think they didn't notice hat he was doing until it was too late?

-megan

Number 3

"...It had been a long time since I had felt so easy, tranquil, almost lost in a reverie--so comfortable, to be quite frank. For the first time in ages, I was freed of the torments of irritability: the bodies squeezed up against mined no longer bothered me. Indeed, I was somehow even glad they were there with me, that they were so akin and so similar to mine, and it was now that an unwonted, anamalous, shy, I might even say clumsy feeling came overe me for the first time--I believe it may, perhaps, have been affection. "

I think that this is when Georg begins to realize the changes that have come over him since he left his family. He experiences feeling's he's never had before; affection for people he's never even met, affection for complete strangers. I never really imagined Georg to be the kind fo person who's affectionate about people he doesn't know, but I guess that's how much a situation like he's in could change his reactions, his thoughts, maybe even his personality.

When a man's stipped of everything, his material riches, his social status, his pride, then I he would be left with nothing but a need to survive, like Cassanndra said. But I think that there is still some emotion left in him, still some feelings. Even if he couldnt care less when the boy died, and he accepted his rations for a week...he didn't need to be supported then. But when you're on a train, you don't know where you're going, when it'll stop, you don't even know how far aor fast it's going, that's when you need other people just for the sake of having them there. There's not only saftey in numbers, there comfort in them too.

I think that humans need to have other people to live. They need to communicate, and to have relationships. But this can't happen in a concentration camp. Not really, anyways. You can't get to know people, because your body and mind are set in survival mode. You're living off adrenaline, off hunger, off fear. In the long run though, if you pull through, you're going to need people to listen to your stories, and you'll need them to share their stories, their secrets, their happiness with you.

I think that Georg was only to happy to share his space with his fellow passengers because they were all in it together. There was nothing to win, nothing to lose. Thye were all equal. They weren't going to get another bread ration for ignoring and avoiding each other. So they pulled together. For however long that train ride was, that's how long they remained pure humans for. That's how the first human, however he or she was created, arrived, or appeared on earth, that's what they were for the ride.

That's my thoughts on the passage. I know it sounds philosophical, or maybe it sounds like crap, but thats what I believe.

number 7 and number 4

i strongly agree with cassandra that georg has grown up alot, but so subtly you don't notice. at the beginning of the book, i was introduced to an average teenage boy, who's parents were divorced, and who's father was being sent away to a labour camp, but now i'm at pg 180-something, and it's hard to believe that the story isn't from a grown mans point of view. the perspectives, thoughts, and comments on everyday life in a concentration camp are alot more sophisticated. at first, he didn't really explain what was going on in his mind, it was more like a reporting on his surroundings. but now that he's been in the concentration camp for so long, he's more focused on telling us his thoughts. georg went through so much, that it's not really surprising the amount of change that took place. i think the reason you don't really notice the change until you compare the georg who lived at home to the one who lived in the concentration camp was because of the lack of emotion. but you can definatley see the change in his observations on his life and his situation.

this is in response to number 8. the line that really resonated with me was on pg 162, when there were 3 people who were to be hanged. during the hanging, everybody was chanting prayers in yiddish, to supports the unfortunate victims, and to support everybody else around them. after, georg comments on how he felt.

"Indeed, for the very first time, I too was now seized, I don't know why, by a certain sense of loss, even a touch of envy; for the first time, I now somewhat regretted that I was unable to pray, if only a few sentences, in the language of the Jews."

i don't know why, but this line just stuck with me. i'm not at all religious, but i've always wondered if complete strangers could be joined by such a...i don't know what to call it. "force" sounds too much like a Starwars thing. i kinda get the feeling that it might be like the connection that you feel with a group of strangers, when you all go through the same thing together, such as something like 911, or just finding out something so happy, such as being hearing that the boat with everybodys relatives on it survived the storm...that sounds stupid. i wish i could comment on it further, but i can't really find the words to explain something i haven't experienced...

-megan

Ms. Johnson's observations of your blog.

Hello Holocaust Readers:

What a great start you people have made. This was soooo interesting to read. Here are my observations.

Megan, Cassandra, excellent posts and plenty of them.

Maddy, only one post but it was brilliant.

Brett, you started out so well. I know we'll hear from you soon.
'
The remainder of you need to catch up. I know you will

16 posts in all. Most information not gratuitous at all.

Good initiative by Cassandra. Great detail when making references to the novel, Cass. Christines comment was very good. Great point, Cass about strength of first person.

Brett's post was interesting. Comment about inter racial betrayal was very powerful. Hard to imagine what one would do in a situation like that. Glad to see you are enjoying the book, Brett, but I need to hear from you more. Try making some comments.

Good idea Cass about posting tht questions - good leadership! Nice diction and very sophisticated comments regarding lack of sentiment.

Megan has an hosest point regarding it sounding more like a history book. I think Megan is on to something regarding the lack of feeling. What do you people think in happening to these people's emotions and why do think it is happening? Good post Megan - loved your followup point regarding the aforementioned - great observation about not being able to relive the stress.

Christine's anticipation of Georg's discovering the crematoriums is astute.

Maddi M. I totally agree with Maddie regarding motive for writing. Interesting contrast you have discovered , Maddi about how different your author's memories are - vivid and bitter as opposed to dispassionate!!! Brilliant!!!
When do you think it gets sappy? (Good hones observation!)


Megan, thanks for the URL and excellent discussion with it. Yeah, Megan you got some excellent comments from Christine and Cassandra.


Who is "surfax'?

Cass's "Recent Speculation" Was great.

Hello Rylann! Looking forward to more posts.



Overall you are doing a great job, people! Work on getting more posts and comments from everyone!!!!

"I began to notice the changes a bit later on--in the matter of rations, first and foremost. I and the others could only speculate how the era of half-loaves could have flown by so swiftly; into it's place, at all events, irreversibly stepped into the era of thirds and quaters, even the Zulage was no longer always an absolute certainty. That is also when the train came to a standstill altogether. I tried to look ahead, but the prospect stratched only to tomorrow, while tomorrow was an identical day, that is to say, another day exactly the same as today--in the best case, of course. My zest dwindled, my drive dwindled, every day it was that little bit harder to get up, every day I turned in for sleep that little bit wearier. I was that little bit hungrier, found it took that little bit more effort to walk, somehow everything started to become harder, with me becoming a burden even to myself. I (all of us I dare say) was no longer absolutley always a good prisoner, and we were soon able to recognize the reflections of this, of course, in the soldiers, not to speak of our own functionaries, and among these, if only by virtue of his rank, the Lageraltester."
Pg 149

I thought this passage was absolutley amazing!! I love the way Irme Kertesz worded it, and i also thought that this was one of the few parts of the book that actually revealed to you how hard life was in the concentration camp. i don't know why i love this part so much, but i've read it over and over again, and it still strikes me as one of the best, maybe the best part of the book. i know it sounds kind of weird, but i really like the sentence structure, the way that he made something that could have been just another ordinary part of the book stand out by changing the way he put it. today, we were talking about imagery, and how it made a book really interesting. i think this book lacks a little in imagery, but i also think it makes up for it in the vocabulary and sentence structure. christine and cassandra, just incase we don't have a long enough presentation for next friday, we could use this passage aswell.
-megan
ps.please tell me what you think of this passage, and if it's just me who thinks that it's terrific

i wanted to comment on cassandra's first post. in the most of the holocaust books i've read, alot of the germans didn't know that the jews were being sent to concentration camps. atleast the younger people didn't. i don't know if any of you have read "Behind the Bedroom Wall" by Laura Williams (which is a super good book!! if you like holocaust books, this one's the one to read), but the young german girl goes to a youth group called Hitler Youth which promotes the fatherland, and puts down jews, so they are brainwashed into thinking all jews are bad. alot of it was the media too, i believe. hitler himself also played a huge roll in convincing the entire german population by radio. i found a quote at

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/hitleryouth/
(there's also alot of good information on hitler youth, such as the activities they used to do, the banner song, the flags they used for the groups, some interesting quotes, and some really good pictures)

"My program for educating youth is hard. Weakness must be hammered away. In my castles of the Teutonic Order a youth will grow up before which the world will tremble. I want a brutal, domineering, fearless, cruel youth. Youth must be all that. It must bear pain. There must be nothing weak and gentle about it. The free, splendid beast of prey must once again flash from its eyes...That is how I will eradicate thousands of years of human domestication...That is how I will create the New Order." -- Adolf Hitler, 1933.

i don't know as much about what the adults thought, but i think alot of them were fine with talking to jews until hitler started to persecute them, so acting as though they hated jews might have made them look like "real germans" under societies eyes. i read the first chapter or so of The Cage, and i was shocked at how people were giving up their former jewish friends just to save their own lives, but once i read cassandra's blog, i started to really think about why it might have been like that.

-megan